Fuel Economy Choices

[Cammer]

As fuel prices continue to rise at astronomical rates we may be forced to make some tough choices!

Many new fuel saving devices will be introduced. Some of these may actually work. Most will just lighten your wallet!

IMHO, the best attack on high fuel prices is to build small, lightweight, efficient vehicles.

The auto market is consumer driven.

We buy pickups and SUV's! The automakers make big money selling these!

Do automakers want to build smaller, efficient vehicles given the attending small profit margins?

Perhaps the time has come to assess our real vehicle needs.

In many cases small, efficient vehicles would serve the majority of us.

This subject may lack the romance of fast race cars and pretty women but still needs to be addressed.

[old blue 75]

Maybe stuff like this will help.

Designer aviation fuel may provide cleaner, greener, cheaper alternative


With prices going so high on gas new technologies will come to the surface.

[Cammer]

Much new technology is produced at universities and small, cottage companies.

The United States Patent Office and the patent process itself need an overhaul to facilitate new technology and protect inventors. Patents are stolen before the ink is dry! Many inventions die because of problems with the patent process. I have several around my shop destined to die with me.

Leaded fuels will be phased out in all civilized countries.

Diesel engines can be made to run on garbage. The diesel engine was designed at inception to run on many different fuels.

We are all part of the solution or part of the problem!

[Dusty]

how bout a 2000 lb car that had an intelligently design v6 was slick like a vette and had 300hp lots of compression and water injection. Room for two plus two crammed extras or grocerys. Simply designed, power nothing, and 40 to the gallon highway. Is that too much to frickin ask for????

[Cammer]

Your concept is a possibility.

A very efficient engine can also be powerful.
______________________

Why is regenerative braking not standard on all vehicles?

A combination starter/alternator/assist motor can help fuel mileage.

Fuel economy does not mean boring!

DOD shows promise and I would like to see unused cylinders used to supercharge the cylinders in use.

The world does not revolve around big V8 engines!

Any person with average mechanical skills could build a fast, efficient car from a motorcycle. How about a three-wheeler?

Speaking of motorcycles, check this out:

ZERO X || ZERO MOTORCYCLES

0-30 mph in less than 2 seconds!

[Brian P]

Regenerative braking isn't standard on all vehicles because it costs money. Only full-hybrid vehicles like Toyota Prius have it. There is some question over whether regen braking is actually of much benefit over plain ordinary engine stop/start when you take the weight of the batteries and hybrid powertrain into account. In pure city driving stop and go applications on heavier vehicles, it's a benefit, but there's a recent report from the Toronto Transit Commission that their hybrid-powertrain buses aren't saving as much fuel as they had hoped. Where have we heard that one before ...

Definitely engine stop/start is a good thing to do, and it's way less complex and expensive than full hybrid. It is still not without its side effects - if you want A/C while stopped, the A/C has to be electrically driven (Prius does this) although electrically driven A/C has its own set of advantages because it's not locked to engine speed any more.

Indeed, economical doesn't have to be boring. One vehicle that I'm a fan of, which isn't available here, is the new Fiat 500.

Displacement on demand is interesting but if you start using the inactive cylinders as superchargers, you have to ask the question whether it wouldn't be more efficient under those load conditions to simply re-activate those cylinders rather than trying to supercharge the others. This is something where one would have to crunch the numbers. Also, it could be argued that the need for displacement-on-demand goes away if the engine is properly sized for the application instead of 3 times oversized. If acceleration comes up short, maybe the real problem is that the vehicle weighs too much. If weight can't be reduced then maybe the acceleration shortfall is better made up by using a hybrid powertrain (Prius does this) or by using a downsized engine but turbocharged or supercharged. Have a look at Volkswagen's 1.4 litre TSI (twin-charged) engine, 170 hp is plenty for a Golf. Efficiency isn't on par with the TDI diesel but it's better than that of the base gasoline engines.

Agreed, the V8 is soon to be history in mass market vehicles.

Why make a car out of a motorcycle, just use the motorcycle itself. I have a fun little Honda CBR 125 R, 12 horsepower of fury, uses 2.8 - 3.2 litres per 100 km depending on how hard it's ridden. Weighs only about 118 kg and it'll do highway speed wide open.

All-electric vehicles will certainly be part of the future.

[DavidVizard-GFN]

Brianp,

I like what you have said here - especially where weight is concerned. The lighter the vehicle is the less need there is for regen braking system.The real buguboo is that the car companies keep designing cars that an uneducated buying public feels they want. A point worth taking into acount here is that the first Mini coopers were over a thousand lbs lighter than the current ones. Sure they had no AC but lets add AC and also an aluminum block and head. I know if I designed the engine it would crank out at least 100 hp while the car still weighed in under 1600 lbs. Sure I would have to make the crash tests a little more leniant but what we would have is a car that did 45-50 to the gallon and could run the !/4mile in the same time as a Mustang GT. If we are going to look at mileage andkeep a fun level of performance we will need to give up something. Low noise levels might just be the frst victim here. Dare I say it but there are cars out there now that ,if the manufacture came along and asked me, I am damn sure I could get 60 mpg at 65mph cruise. The problem is they never ask!!

I am totally amazed the GM have only just realized that gas prices are never going to go back down -only up. Dusty's plan for a V6 supercar is where I would have gone for a new Z281 - lessweightneedsless engine which means more mpg and more fun!!!

DV

[1989GTA]

" Dusty's plan for a V6 supercar is where I would have gone for a new Z281 - lessweightneedsless engine which means more mpg and more fun!!!"

Like the Buick GNX and the 1989 Turbo Trans Ams. GM has been there done that but the full concept of what "could be" never struck home with them. I agree with Dusty.

[Cammer]

Analysts in the USA are predicting gasoline prices of $6 a gallon by summer's end and say prices are poised to hit $12 a gallon.

Forget the ethanol, give me biogasoline: Virent and Shell announce plans to develop biogasoline (WTN News)

I started this thread to get members thinking about alternative ways to enjoy fast, good handling vehicles.

We may see gasoline rationing in the USA and racing could very well be suspended if rationing is implemented!

Racers are getting pinched at the race gas pump and the diesel pump they use for their pulling vehicles. Many are forced to attend fewer races per year. This is not what racing should be.

We can not speak of oil products without using the "politics" word. The politics of oil could fill several books! Suffice to say, we need to lessen our use of oil and find alternatives if we are to avoid economic and military chaos!

[Pinhead]

Originally Posted by Cammer

Analysts in the USA are predicting gasoline prices of $6 a gallon by summer's end and say prices are poised to hit $12 a gallon.

Forget the ethanol, give me biogasoline: Virent and Shell announce plans to develop biogasoline (WTN News)

I started this thread to get members thinking about alternative ways to enjoy fast, good handling vehicles.

We may see gasoline rationing in the USA and racing could very well be suspended if rationing is implemented!

Racers are getting pinched at the race gas pump and the diesel pump they use for their pulling vehicles. Many are forced to attend fewer races per year. This is not what racing should be.

We can not speak of oil products without using the "politics" word. The politics of oil could fill several books! Suffice to say, we need to lessen our use of oil and find alternatives if we are to avoid economic and military chaos!

At $6 a gallon I could hardly afford to drive my motorcycle to work, much less even consider driving any other vehicle. $12 a gallon would cause one of two things: Either someone will "invent" a "free energy" device for electricity and a super efficiency device to retrofit to current vehicles and sell to the masses, OR it'll be the 1800's all over again. You guys in town have it easy; go ahead and get a small econobox to drive to work. Maybe even a motorcycle. But try hauling 6 horses in a trailer behind that econobox. Farmers have absolutely no choice. They simply can't drive smaller, lighter, more efficient vehicles if anyone wants them to continue to produce the amount of food that they do today. They could go back to family-run, self-sufficient farming, but YOU won't get any of their food because they'll be making just enough to for their families to survive. "The farmer is the only man in our economy that buys everything retail, sells everything wholesale, and pays freight both ways." -- JFK