Concern

[Cammer]

Time to shake it up a bit!

I am concerned with the number of posts relating to questionable products and technologies!

I do not want to see GFN turn into a circus!

Please use your words wisely!

The thoughts presented are my own.

[rookie]

Aren’t all products and technologies questionable?

I know D.V. and possibly some other tech writers are picky about the products they write about, but let’s face it; the products they get are not the same products you and I get.

The parts they get have been gone over with a fine toothcomb.

Case in point, there is a product that David uses on many of his builds with good results, I’ve had 4 of their products in my hands and three of them where unusable (not just dissatisfying) but unusable as delivered and had to be sent back, I’ve heard of other stories of the same problems, so it’s not just me and this is a reputable company.

The truth is, the burger you get in the bag is not the one you see in the picture.

It would Be a Great product if they would focus on the quality they advertise instead of trying to make 50 bazillion variations of the same product.

In their defense (the company) they have to cater to a public that wants everything, they want it now and they want it for less money, while at the same time, they (the public) don’t want to have to do to much to get it and they would like to do it at their on pace and then demand top dollar for the job they do.

And yes, I have been as guilty of this as the next guy.

PS>
What would be cool is a sort of Performance Consumer Reports, but I don’t know how they (who ever does it) would fund it.

[Pinhead]

If all products and technologies aren't questionable, than they were at one time. Squish pads in the combustion chamber... They weren't always there. Swirl ports weren't always there. Four-valve heads... These are technologies that many people, at first, completely denied their value. They were considered "questionable."

[DavidVizard-GFN]

Rookie,

You hit the nail on the head with some of your comments. If only I always got what was sold!

Somtimes it's possible to take precautions but most time not. Here is an example of precaution taking that had some amusing results.

Way back in 1981 I decided to do a big Nitrous kit shoot out. This was promted by one supplier who claimed a 150 hp increase. A kit on a friends car netted 67 hp at th rear wheels.

So here is what I did.

I had one of Frank Townsend's (Townsend Racing Tucson AZ.) call and ask preset questions about the product and record the answers. After asking all the questions he would order a 150 hp kit.

While all this was going on with some half dozen companies I also called, told them who I was and asked for a kit to test for a comparison feature in PHR magazine. After all the kits had come in I called each company back and asked if they were sure what they sent was what they normally sold.

A typical answer went like this - 'sure it is'. At this point I would tell them I had bought a system also under another name and would that system be identical? Most said 'sure it will' and it was - but a couple those company sales people really got to stuttering and making escused as to why it possibley might not be.

Same with power firgures. I asked each what they expected their kits to give. One very well known company claimed 150 from their systems. We saw 65 hp from one and 67 from the other. Anyway the plot goes on. All this was a 22 page story in mid to late 81 in PHR and it pissed off some people to the extent that the owner of one company actually threatened my life( and he really could afford a half dozen hit men if that was what was needed). That was the first time that happened but it sure as hell wasn't the last.
You no what this subject about testing and the impications it stirs up would make a great after dinner talk. Any takers??
DV

[Mwilson]

Originally Posted by DavidVizard-GFN

You no what this subject about testing and the impications it stirs up would make a great after dinner talk. Any takers??
DV

You buying! LOL

Reading all the tech articles Im assuming some manufactures possibly sponsor the site? All great well name manufacturers and no reason not to use thier products so Im not really sure?

[SAJOMATIC]

If Something Doesn't Work I Would Like To Read About Here Before I Put It In My Engine And Find Out The Hard Way!!!! I Work Too Damn Hard For What Little Money I Recieve!!!!

[DavidVizard-GFN]

Originally Posted by SAJOMATIC

If Something Doesn't Work I Would Like To Read About Here Before I Put It In My Engine And Find Out The Hard Way!!!! I Work Too Damn Hard For What Little Money I Recieve!!!!

Here is the GFN policy on products. If it works as described or better then promote it. If it is mediocre ignore it. If it is a rip-off expose it.

Right now we are trying to come up with some sort of way to help GFN members resolve problems they may have with a vendor. If we can pull that off OK it will give all our GFN members a measure of protection against loosing their hard earned cash. It's going to take a while but I am interested in making it happen because I am probably nearer broke than you guys!
DV

[Cammer]

All products tested must be the same as those bought by consumers.

Products must be obtained at regular price by a person unrelated to the testing party.

People are not happy to find poor performance in a product that tested great.

Members must be mindful of the potential legal ramifications involved in the process of identifying poor products and services. Paradoxically, this also allows shady products and services to thrive in the marketplace.

Let me give you a little economics lesson. You have a shady product you are selling on the internet. You offer a money back guarantee, (minus S&H), provided product is returned in original condition and in the original packaging. A GFN member buys the product for a few dollars and finds it to be trash. The member may just forget returning it because of the low price and the fact that they lost the packaging. See how everything is biased towards the seller. You can get rich even though every person buying the product returns it. The seller can make all his money by padding the S&H above cost of product or using the float period to compile interest on the consumer's money! I have not even gotten to potential tax trickery!

[BLK98MK8LSC]

This site will never degenerate into a refuge for the hydrogen generating cow magnet crowd. To many engineers and sharp engine guys on here. As the profile of the site goes up, the kook spammers will inevitably show up more and more. Its big business these days. The knowledgeable members and staff will take care of the BS and separate the fact from the fiction. Thats why I come here to learn.

[rookie]

Originally Posted by BLK98MK8LSC

This site will never degenerate into a refuge for the hydrogen generating cow magnet crowd. To many engineers and sharp engine guys on here. As the profile of the site goes up, the kook spammers will inevitably show up more and more. Its big business these days. The knowledgeable members and staff will take care of the BS and separate the fact from the fiction. Thats why I come here to learn.

About spammers,

see, Warning