Difference in Studs

[jmwj03]

So I've always used ARP studs in the past (been about 12 years since I put togther my last motor) and always been satisfied. However, I notice now there are a lot of other manufacturers cropping up with main and head studs. All the others list using "8740 aircraft quality chromoly" as the material. In ARP's catalog, they claim this is the 2nd to the worst of the chromoly blends. Yet, the "others" have (or claim) the same tensile strength of 190000 psi as the ARPs. Just curious as to thoughts on this. Just do a fleabay search and you'll see what I am talking about. I've also seen them at a lot of retail speed shops. Anyone tried these other brands?

[Ol' CW]

I'll stick to ARP

You can see the quality in their fasteners.

[jmwj03]

Ive always used ARP as well...but I'll tell you "seeing" doenst do anything. These other brands look identical. If you laid two of them down, you could not tell the difference. The threads are rolled (rather than cut) just like the ARPs. it appears a possible difference in the material, or possibly the heat treating. That's why i was curious if anyone had actually used them.

[Cammer]

Studs are often used in engines exposed to repeated teardowns to save the block threads from undue wear.

Perhaps the biggest fastener problem we currently face is with inferior Chinese produced fasteners. This problem is exaberated by the fact that Chinese manufacturers will mark fasteners as higher quality than they are. The Chinese will also copy trademarks such as ARP and use these on junk fasteners.

GFN members need to know the difference in specifications related to fastener markings and take steps to ensure the source and quality of fasteners bought.

Nearly all metric fasteners are produced in China and I have personally found many poor quality metric fasteners sourced from China. An 8.8 or 10.9 marking on a Chinese produced metric fastener may mean nothing.

OEM fasteners go through strenuous testing and are often a good choice.

The days when quality fasteners were a given are over and we must all take steps to make certain we are using good products.

[rookie]

ARP Rod Bolts - High Performance
Maximum Durability!
These are undeniably the strongest, most reliable OEM-replacement rod bolts available! Forged from 8740 chrome moly, you are guaranteed maximum durability, especially when combined with ARP's innovative manufacturing technology. Choose from new Wave-Loc or standard knurled design. 190,000 psi.

ARP Rod Bolts - High Performance - JEGS

[jmwj03]

Rookie, that's exactly my point...

From another stud manufacturer:

"...Studs are created from aircraft quality 8740 high tensile strength Chrome-Moly steel, with a 190,000 PSI rating, the kit comes complete with 12 point hex nuts and washers. Broached end and allen keyed for easy installation and removal."

They are made in the USA, so while agree with what Cammer said, I don't think overseas manufacturing can apply here. What is concerning, is that the specs are identical to the ARP. However, the price is less than a third of ARP. As was said earlier, we have to know what the differences are to ensure we are getting quality product, but with a statement like the above, how can we be sure?

I was just hoping to hear someone had used them and either had success or failure...at least it would be real world experience, not words on a page.

Thanks for the replies.

[Ol' CW]

"If it seems too good to be true it probably is"

Hard time believing that it could be 1/3rd price, USA made AND the same specs

Hard to beat ARP's track record

[jmwj03]

Originally Posted by Ol' CW

"If it seems too good to be true it probably is"

Hard time believing that it could be 1/3rd price, USA made AND the same specs

Hard to beat ARP's track record

I think you guys are missing my point. I havent and won't dispute that ARP is the most widely known, and probably the best, stud manufacturer out there. As I said in my initial post, I've always used ARP in my engines. What I am saying is that there are similar, if not exact, claims of performance to ARP. Cammer seemed to understand where I was going with this. False claims? Who knows. I'm not looking for a reason to stay with ARP...what I am looking for is some experience with these others. ARP didnt start with their credentials, they had to earn them over the years. Basing someone elses performance on what you know about ARP is simply name recognition. It's like buying "Coke" over a generic brand...you know it, you've had it, and until someone tells you the generic is exactly the same, you wont know it if you don't try it.

[67GTA]

Originally Posted by jmwj03

I think you guys are missing my point. I havent and won't dispute that ARP is the most widely known, and probably the best, stud manufacturer out there. As I said in my initial post, I've always used ARP in my engines. What I am saying is that there are similar, if not exact, claims of performance to ARP. Cammer seemed to understand where I was going with this. False claims? Who knows. I'm not looking for a reason to stay with ARP...what I am looking for is some experience with these others. ARP didnt start with their credentials, they had to earn them over the years. Basing someone elses performance on what you know about ARP is simply name recognition. It's like buying "Coke" over a generic brand...you know it, you've had it, and until someone tells you the generic is exactly the same, you wont know it if you don't try it.

I share your frustration on this issue. I would try a few other forums in order to get a few more opinions, like the FE forum (a number of the guys there are pretty hardcore racers without infinite wallets) or try and call a local builder or two and see if someone has used the studs in question. The manufacturer should also provide several references of builders you can call. Keith Craft also seems like someone who would take a minute to offer an opinion if he can, you can find his contact info on the clubcobra forum.

If you find some more feedback, please share it.

[Regal502]

Thought I'd jump into this discussion...... I've always been intrigued to find out where our parts are actually coming from....
I was recently talking in confidence to one of my suppliers, and he really enlightened me to how many "manufacturing" companies don't actually "manufacture" anything really much anymore here in the USA. Here's a matrix of our discussion for simplicity sake, I've personally confirmed 75% (so far) to be 100% true! I know, I know...it's sickening!!

Manley Valves: Chinese
Ferrea Valves: Thailand or Chinese (this really disheartened me)
Callies Compstar Cranks: Chinese or Vietnam!
Most everyone's valvesprings: Chinese (except Isky, whom still does their own)
Pushrods: Chinese (with the exception of Manton & Smith Bros.)
Most Connecting Rods: Chinese (yes, this include callies, Manley, and even Crower!) Oliver excluded.
Most everything Comp Cams & RHS heads: Chinese foundried.
Howards: Mostly foundried in China.
Scat & Eagle: China
Most ALL Titanium Retainers: CHINA
Cloyes: Thailand or China or (Japan for timing chains)

Of course several high end companies are still here and FULLY foundried/manufactured AND machined, here in the Good ole' USA, they are:

Jesel
Crower (with the above exceptions)
T & D Machine
Sonny Bryant
Moldex
Jomar
ARP
Arias
Diamond Pistons
Wiseco
Melling
Stef's Fabrication
(some) Moroso